Re: [TCLCORE] Tcl GSoC 2011 - Ideas anyone ?

I agree with what Will has written too, it was not only for Tk in web
browsers what I am looking for, but to get a different (more modern)
base for Tk.

The point which would help me already with my ATWF project, is to be
able to use Tcl instead of Javascript in the browser (one of the
browsers), so I am very much interested in Tcl Firefox Scripting
project, and with that I can also stay with the DOM and HTML stuff
available there.
Arnulf


Am 13.03.2011 17:20, schrieb Will Duquette:
> > On Mar 13, 2011, at 8:52 AM, Arnulf Wiedemann wrote:> >> Hello,>> I would like to still go one step further and try to build a mega-widget>> framework based on DOM trees composed of elements as described below so>> that you get themes for widgets by composing elements like in tile and>> by configuring them by something similar to css styles (perhaps>> something like dicts with the appropriate infos and good selectors>> similar to/like the XPATH selectors).> > There's an important notion here.  More and more these days, GUI development is web development.  A GUI paradigm for Tcl/Tk that uses web concepts and methods of GUI composition might be very appealing to the younger crowd--especially if it could be used in both desktop apps and web apps.> > We've seen a number of efforts in this direction at the conference over the last ten years, but none of them have become part of the core.  And here's the real difference between the Tcl/Tk core and extensions: when the extension author loses interest or need or funding for work on the extension, development ceases, bugs don't get fixed, and the extension becomes unusable. Stuff in the core, precisely because it's the core, attracts bug fixes at least.> > I know that I've frequently wanted a robust HTML or HTML-like widget in Tk; it is frequently a useful way to present information.  But TkHTML 2 has minimal functionality and a number of annoying quirks, and is unmaintained; TkHTML 3 is much better, but has a number of annoying quirks and rendering bugs (at least on OS X and Linux), and is unmaintained.  And both were aimed at writing web browsers, which is not what I think we need.  If you want to target the browser, target the browser.  What I'm interested in is high-quality rendering (not editing) of rich text, including such things as columns, tables, embedded forms and images and widgets (with text wrap), and (preferably) printing.  You can do much of this in the text widget, but tables are a problem, and though I've embedded images and widgets in the text widget, scrolling always looks kind of ugly.> > In short, instead of trying to bring Tk to the web browser (a la the Plugin), let's bring the web browser to Tk.> > Will> > > >>>> That is surely something for Tk 9.0 or later. Using mega-widgets of that>> kind would allow a user in best case to only provide css like style info>> and nevertheless an experienced user has full access to every path. For>> that it is also necessary like with existing Tk to have good defaults.>>>> Another advantage would be: people used to Javascript, DOM and CSS could>> start faster with Tk as that uses similar techniques. Maybe that would>> help in getting more people involved using Tcl/Tk?>>>> And if the http://wiki.tcl.tk/28092 Tcl Firefox Scripting and DOM Access>> would be done, you could use very similar code to build browser widgets>> and to build Tk clients the same way.>>>> Going that direction it would be also useful to get rid of X as far as>> possible and to have a meta layer, which would allow to perhaps base on>> one (or more than one) different window systems (I admit, I am no expert>> in that direction just some ideas).>>>> That is not meant as a GSoC work, but as an own project!! Or you split>> it down to smaller parts, then it would be possible.>>>> just my 2 cents.>> Arnulf (apw)>>>>>> Am 13.03.2011 08:48, schrieb Thomas Perschak:>>> Hi all,>>>>>> "... A mega-widget framework in the core, and a standard mechanism to allow>>> widgets (including built-in widgets) to be extended ...">>>>>> A very nice way to create mega-widgets 'would' exists in ttk by using >>> elements. I already tried and played with the "ttk::style layout" and placed >>> foreign elements into other widgets e.g. place the scroll-bar elements >>> inside the entry. Unfort. ttk seems not to be designed for that idea as it's >>> missing special element manipulation. The point is - for me this would be >>> the 'great' improvement that other languages don't have up to now.>>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.tcl/browse_thread/thread/e820331e1cc00c5d?hl=en#>>>>>> One thing I would like to know: Does TCL have sponsors that actively support >>> developers by wish-list versus money? Could ActiveState bee seen as >>> something like this? Is ActiveState the only one?>>> My point is - OpenSource is nice - but I do really believe that this >>> "everything's free mentality" will burn down individualists and throw them >>> away leaving nothing but void behind.>>>>>> thomas>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Twylite>>> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 8:37 AM>>> To: k...@codebykevin.com>>> Cc: tcl-...@lists.sourceforge.net>>> Subject: Re: [TCLCORE] Tcl GSoC 2011 - Ideas anyone ?>>>>>> On 2011/03/11 03:52 AM, Kevin Walzer wrote:>>>> What, exactly, is it>>>> missing, except for modern HTML bindings and native printing?>>>> (Admittedly, HTML and native printing are big ones.)>>>>>> A mega-widget framework in the core, and a standard mechanism to allow>>> widgets (including built-in widgets) to be extended.  i.e. without>>> reinventing the wheel all the time, and without unexpected interactions>>> between independent extensions because the all have to do various>>> hook/chain/rename hacks.>>>>>> Regards,>>> Twylite>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------>>> Colocation vs. Managed Hosting>>> A question and answer guide to determining the best fit>>> for your organization - today and in the future.>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/internap-sfd2d>>> _______________________________________________>>> Tcl-Core mailing list>>> Tcl-...@lists.sourceforge.net>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------>>> Colocation vs. Managed Hosting>>> A question and answer guide to determining the best fit>>> for your organization - today and in the future.>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/internap-sfd2d>>> _______________________________________________>>> Tcl-Core mailing list>>> Tcl-...@lists.sourceforge.net>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------>> Colocation vs. Managed Hosting>> A question and answer guide to determining the best fit>> for your organization - today and in the future.>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/internap-sfd2d>> _______________________________________________>> Tcl-Core mailing list>> Tcl-...@lists.sourceforge.net>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcl-core> > > Mr. Will Duquette, OP> will -at- wjduquette dot com  > http://foothills.wjduquette.com/blog> > > > > > 


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