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Re: [Distutils] BDFL Delegates for distutils-sig PEPs

From: Nick Coghlan <ncog...@gmail.com>
Sun, 6 Sep 2015 09:12:53 +1000
On 6 Sep 2015 08:31, "Marcus Smith" <qwc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> is this a response to other thread about how/where to store specs and
> If not, what in this email are you responding to?

I believe Donald was suggesting we could just have a PyPA specific change
proposal process hosted on packaging.python.org, rather than using a
variant of the PEP process.

I don't want to do that though - PyPA/distutils-sig's authority *is*
delegated from python-dev through the BDFL-Delegate and Discussions-To
headers in the regular PEP process, and there are going to be some
proposals affecting ensurepip and distutils that still fall under
python-dev rather than distutils-sig.

Dealing with the PEP repo is currently more painful than it needs to be,
but that's what the forge.python.org proposals aim to address.


>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 1:32 PM, Donald Stufft <don...@stufft.io> wrote:>>>> If it’s more useful we could also just use an RFC repository like Rust
does instead of doing a mishmash between having Python using PEPs and
packaging using PEPs.
>>>> On September 4, 2015 at 11:42:21 PM, Nick Coghlan (ncog...@gmail.com)
>> > We've got to a point where the original standing delegations to myself>> > and Richard Jones to act as BDFL-Delegates for metadata>> > interoperability and pypi.python.org related aren't scaling>> > adequately, so given Paul's recent delegation for PEP 470, and Donald>> > handling PEP 503 directly, it seems like an opportune time to put>> > something in writing about that.>> >>> > For PyPA/distutils-sig specific PEPs, we've effectively adopted the>> > following approach to assigning BDFL-Delegates in resolving PEPs 470>> > and 503:>> >>> > =================================>> > Whenever a new PEP is put forward on distutils-sig, any PyPA core>> > reviewer that believes they are suitably experienced to make the final>> > decision on that PEP may offer to serve as the BDFL's delegate (or>> > "PEP czar") for that PEP. If their self-nomination is accepted by the>> > other PyPA core reviewer, the lead PyPI maintainer and the lead>> > CPython representative on distutils-sig, then they will have the>> > authority to approve (or reject) that PEP.>> > =================================>> >>> > And translating the nominated roles to the folks currently filling>> > them: "lead PyPI maintainer" = Donald Stufft; "lead CPython>> > representative on distutils-sig" = me.>> >>> > "PyPA core reviewer" isn't a term we've previously used, but I'm>> > aiming to capture "has approval rights for pull requests to one or>> > more of the PyPA maintained source code or documentation repos".>> >>> > Some further details for the benefit of folks not aware of the
relevant history:
>> >>> > * a couple of years ago, we amended PEP 1 to give the "Discussions-To">> > header some additional force for PEPs which don't directly affect>> > CPython: """PEP review and resolution may also occur on a list other>> > than python-dev (for example, distutils-sig for packaging related PEPs>> > that don't immediately affect the standard library). In this case, the>> > "Discussions-To" heading in the PEP will identify the appropriate>> > alternative list where discussion, review and pronouncement on the PEP>> > will occur.""">> >>> > * we *didn't* update the section about assignment of BDFL-Delegates.>> > Instead, I received a general delegation for packaging metadata>> > interoperability PEPs, and Richard Jones received one for>> > pypi.python.org related PEPs>> >>> > * Richard subsequently passed the latter delegation on to Donald,>> > since Donald had taken over as the lead maintainer for PyPI>> >>> > The section in PEP 1 for CPython BDFL-Delegates reads as follows:>> > =================================>> > However, whenever a new PEP is put forward, any core developer that>> > believes they are suitably experienced to make the final decision on>> > that PEP may offer to serve as the BDFL's delegate (or "PEP czar") for>> > that PEP. If their self-nomination is accepted by the other core>> > developers and the BDFL, then they will have the authority to approve>> > (or reject) that PEP.>> > =================================>> >>> > This process can be appropriately described as "volunteering to be>> > blamed" - if a PEP from a less experienced contributor subsequently>> > proves to be a mistake, that's on the BDFL-Delegate for saying "Yes",>> > not on the PEP author for proposing it. Mostly though, it's so there's>> > someone to have the final say on the fiddly little details that go>> > into getting from a general concept to an actual implementation,>> > without getting mired down in design-by-committee on every incidental>> > detail.>> >>> > As PEP authors, we'll also often ask someone else specifically to>> > volunteer as BDFL-Delegate, because we trust their judgement in>> > relation to the topic at hand (e.g. I asked Martin von Löwis to be>> > BDFL-Delegate for the original ensurepip PEP because I knew he was>> > skeptical of the idea, so a design that passed muster with him was>> > likely to have suitably addressed the ongoing maintainability>> > concerns. Guido did something similar when he asked Mark Shannon to be>> > BDFL-Delegate for PEP 484's gradual typing).>> >>> > Regards,>> > Nick.>> >>> > P.S. It's becoming clear to me that I should probably write a>> > companion PEP to PEP 1 that specifically describes distutils-sig's>> > usage of the PEP process (and how that differs from the normal CPython>> > processes), but hopefully this post provides sufficient clarification>> > for now.>> >>> > -->> > Nick Coghlan | ncog...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia>> > _______________________________________________>> > Distutils-SIG maillist - Dist...@python.org>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig>> >>>>> ----------------->> Donald Stufft>> PGP: 0x6E3CBCE93372DCFA // 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372
>>>>>> _______________________________________________>> Distutils-SIG maillist  -  Dist...@python.org>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig>>>> _______________________________________________> Distutils-SIG maillist  -  Dist...@python.org> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig>

Distutils-SIG maillist  -  Dist...@python.org

Recent Messages in this Thread
Nick Coghlan Sep 05, 2015 03:41 am
Donald Stufft Sep 05, 2015 08:32 pm
Marcus Smith Sep 05, 2015 10:31 pm
Nick Coghlan Sep 05, 2015 11:12 pm
Donald Stufft Sep 05, 2015 11:49 pm
Marcus Smith Sep 06, 2015 12:39 am
Nick Coghlan Sep 06, 2015 05:47 am
Marcus Smith Sep 06, 2015 03:43 pm
Nick Coghlan Sep 06, 2015 11:29 pm
Marcus Smith Oct 30, 2015 06:27 am
Nick Coghlan Nov 10, 2015 06:14 am
Nick Coghlan Nov 10, 2015 06:58 am
Donald Stufft Nov 10, 2015 12:08 pm
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