Re: [Distutils] Working toward Linux wheel support

On 14Aug2015 0038, Nathaniel Smith wrote:
> Windows and OS X don't (reliably) have any package manager. So PyPI> *is* inevitably going to contain non-Python shared libraries or> statically linked modules or something like that. (And in fact it> already contains such things today.) I'm not sure what the alternative> would even be.

Windows 10 has a package manager 
(http://blogs.technet.com/b/keithmayer/archive/2014/04/16/what-s-new-in-powershell-getting-started-with-oneget-in-one-line-with-powershell-5-0.aspx) 
but I don't think it will be particularly helpful here. The Windows 
model has always been to only share system libraries and each 
application should keep its own dependencies local.

I actually like two ideas for Windows (not clear to me how well they 
apply on other platforms), both of which have been mentioned in the past:

* PyPI packages that are *very* thin wrappers around a shared library

For example, maybe "libpng" shows up on PyPI, and packages can then 
depend on it. It takes some care on the part of the publisher to 
maintain version-to-version compatibility (or maybe wheel/setup.py/.cfg 
grows a way to define vendored dependencies?) but this should be 
possible today.

* "Packages" that contain shared sources

One big problem on Windows is there's no standard place to put library 
sources, so build tools can't find them. If a package declared "build 
requires libpng.x.y source" then there could be tarballs "somewhere" (or 
even links to public version control) that have that version of the 
source, and the build tools can add the path references to include it.

I don't have numbers, but I do know that once a C compiler is available 
the next easiest problem to solve is getting and referencing sources.

> Given that, the only situation I can see where we would ever> distribute wheels that require system blas on Linux, is if we were> able to do it alongside wheels that do not require system blas, and> pip were clever enough to reliably always pick the latter except in> cases where the system blas was actually present and working.

I think something similar came up back when we were discussing SSE 
support in Windows wheels. I'd love to see packages be able to run 
system checks to determine their own platform string (maybe a pip/wheel 
extension?) before selecting and downloading a wheel. I think that would 
actually solve a lot of these issues.

> This means that when you build, e.g., scipy, then you get a binary> that depends on things like the in-memory layout of numpy's internal> objects. We'd like it to be the case that when we release a new> version of numpy, pip could realize "hey, this new version says it has> an incompatible ABI that will break your currently installed version> of scipy -- I'd better fetch a new version of scipy as well, or at> least rebuild the same version I already have". Notice that at the> time scipy is built, it is not known which future version of numpy> will require a rebuild. There are a lot of ways this might work on> both the numpy and pip sides -- definitely fodder for a separate> thread -- but that's the basic problem.

There was discussion about an "incompatible_with" metadata item at one 
point. Could numpy include {incompatible_with: "scipy<x.y"} in such a 
release? Or would that not be possible.

Cheers,
Steve

> -n>

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